Time out from politics.
I saw this article about straying men and busy career-women yesterday.
Today, there is some sort of response to it.
The main reason this has caught my attention is that both Ivy Josiah and Vicky Alahakone are from Women's Aid Organisation and yet both have differing views.
I generally don't read mainstream media, but I'm curious to know what everyone else thinks - both men and women - so please leave a comment.
Feel free to remain anonymous if you so wish, but using a pseudonym would help identify who is who.
References:
1. Sex and the hubby, NST 29 Nov 2009
2. Don't pin it on the working wife, says WAO, NST 30 Nov 2009
22 comments:
What do men generally talk when in a group? After all is said and done, the conversation or discussion ultimately turn to sex.
The experienced ones would normally tell of their exploits,the excitement,the thrills, and off course the service provided by the the "professionals."
Sooner or later, the not so experienced are going to allow their brains to wonder and fantasize. And before he knows it, he is converted.
Its all lust and yearning for a new playground. Working women or wives is just and excuse. You can bet, those "professionals" do provide good service.
And please, don't drag religion into this issue. After all "standing c@#ks has no conscience."
Don't blame women.
People only talk or think about sex when they're not actually doing it. I'd rather not talk or think about sex. But one thing I'm prompted to add is this: different folk have different temperaments and tendencies and it's nonsensical to believe there can be any set formula for sexual behavior that everyone must obey. Some are highly sexed and others more interested in antique furniture. I say let's accept humans for what they are and quit trying to determine how they ought to behave. I feel strongly, nevertheless, that if a man likes sexual variety, he must allow his wife or girlfriend the same option.
I think the first woman was talking rot, and Ivy as usual got all hot and flustered - just like she looks in that pix of her they printed!
Men do not only talk about sex. I totally agree with Antares here: those who do, aren't getting any, or enough. And, I believe the same is true of women: If you think that all they talk about is diapers and recipes, you've got another think coming!
And, again, I agree with Antares: that if a man wants variety, he should agree that his wife/girlfriend plays by the same rules. But, is it ever like that?
I believe that we're not meant to be monogamous. That's why it seems like such a struggle for so many. Women keep looking for the big, strong and friendlies to assure their offspring survive to populate the earth for all eternity. Men are pre-programmed to spread 'it' far and wide - to ensure the human race survives. So how's monogamy fit in with this?
Having said that, I believe that if you are in a warm and fulfilling relationship that nutures your mind, body and spirit, the thought of paying someone for sex doesn't even enter the peripheries of your brain!
I feel that - those who pay, and those who stray - are lost souls, searching for a sense of self that has been so eroded, that all that's left is to find gratification and validation in sex. Kinda sad, if you ask me.
my friend has a mistress, and pays hookers.
his wife is very busy and always on the run so he finds his pleasure somewhere else.
If men stray, they do so for different reasons at different stages of their lives.
In their 20s, it's hormonal; when 30s, stress; come to 40s, it's diversity; reach 50s, it's recklessness and when it's 60s, it dun matter.
If women stray, they do so for different reasons at different stages of their lives.
In their 20s, it;s
Walla, don't stop there. I really want to know.
me too, i want walla to end what she started!!
Kilroy
Life isn't all about sex. Those who think it is, they need to see the the sun more often. Or buy an iPod.. ;)
True story about a man with 4 wives, the last one 30 years younger than him. He told his grown up children,"When a husband comes home, if he is welcome with his slippers, drinks and and other comforts, he should not ask what she had been doing in the day!".
Oh dear. :)
A good friend of mine and I were discussing a close friend of his who strays because his wife is always too busy.
Apparently he gets it only once a month. As Antares says, for some men, that would be ok but for others, that's pure torture.
Forget sex, some men crave female attention and unfortunately, they don't get it from their partners.
That doesn't excuse the fact that they are liable to infect their wives with a nasty little disease they finally get it.
No excuses for the straying men but I wonder if their wives should be a little more sensitive to their needs.
Where was i?
I stopped me'self in the nick of time as i didn't want to advantage men with more privy knowledge about how women think since statistically it appears the problem is more with men than women although some people will have you believe both genders will behave like lizards at the first sign of full moon (http://is.gd/5aSI7).
Maybe the critical challenge of any relationship is keeping the flame alive in a daily world increasingly susceptible to cacophonies of sensory distractions.
People just lose focus of that magic which had magnetized them before.
And it's easy to see why. Familiarity breeds coexistence. Which in the absence of new activities will inevitably lead to boredom. Which will in some cases yield to curiosity followed by adventurism resulting in pursed lips relieved by self-excuses.
The problem is made more challenging with the awakening of an errant gene which seems to trigger the hunting season all over again in men long after their women have already archived their mating instincts. Which leads one to think both may be programmed differently - men are programmed to hunt while women are programmed to domesticate.
Perhaps it's also the arrival of children whose needs shift the focus from the couple away from each other and onto their offsprings. While that's good, it may come with a price.
Good because at the end of the day, children are a natural reason for a marital relationship. It reflects an existing higher order of things.
Price because it is also a test of resolve and resilience.
Because the arrival of children usually coincides with other distractions, mostly from work to pay bills and build the family's future.
So you have a double shift of the foci.
In the case where the man is the sole breadwinner, the reaction of the wife is to find her own company or hobbies. As a woman grows older, she will try to rekindle her girlie days with schoolmates or friends. If one understands women, that's natural.
In the case where both work, the risk of diverging from each other increases. They may not have much energy for the children too who will be increasingly rebellious and independent and that adds another repulsive force within the family.
So we can see how easy it is for the original flame to flicker and the magic to dissipate with each increasing year of living together under the roof of a family that is to be sustained by work and other distractions but repelled by some factors.
There is yet another factor. Men and women develop at different rates. In teens, women develop and mature faster than men. Then post-teens there is a mutual leveling effect. After that women plateau somewhere in the 30s but men keep going at some steady pace, mostly without even knowing it.
However once in the 40s, women recover suddenly with sharper wisdom about things while some men may retro because of some psychological reaction to life suddenly appears which in turn will resonate one reaction or another from their spouses.
Needless to say, these age numbers may vary from couple to couple and the variations will of course create different relationship dynamics.
The line of thought thus dovetails to one thing: what is that psychological reaction to life and why does it appear?
For that, you will have to ask the men.
;P
Walla, I always wonder how you know so much about women. Well, ok I know you have a lot of daughters...
You're right about how couples lose interest when the kids show up and when they gain different hobbies.
I know this woman called Pat. Her husband ah, you can get a woman to walk naked in front of him and Chuan wouldn't even blink if Pat was there. I don't know what kind of spells she uses, but it sure as hell is effective in capturing a man's full attention.
Two other things may also be germane.
Is the way men feel when they are tired and stressed different from the way women feel when they are tired and stressed?
If it is different, then the relief type sought may be different. For example men may feel tiredness as more muscle-based but women feel it as more nervous system based.
Secondly, does the way couples communicate with each other change over the years?
This is important to a greater degree for women.
Just these last points to close my contribution to your topic.
cheers.
I've never been married - frankly I have no clue.
I agree that men should not blame career chasing women for lack of sex. I thk it is totally OK for women to spend more time chasing money than playing 'catch me' game with their partners in the room.
On the other hand, I also support legalising prostitution. Paying for sex is a lot faster and easier compare to arrangin time and gettin partners in da mood.
Most men just wanna 'get off' and they are sick n tired of masturbating (men without partner catergory) or trying to get their partner in the mood (men with partner category).
Forget abt all this phd guys telling u its abt conquest/low self esteem etc etc. Testosterone level too high and we needed to hv our valves release quickly with zero effort, tat is all to it...plain n simple reason.
“It’s like going out for dinner and having an exotic meal. Then, feeling full and satiated, they go home to the wife and kids." This is total bollocks, obviously coming from somone who doesnt hv a clue on why men pay for sex.If we hv to use a meal as an analogy for prostitution,paying for sex is more like fast food Mcd for heaven's sake. Why? It takes care of our hunger and zero effort. Going out for diner exotic meal IS HAVING SEX WITH YOUR PARTNER, plenty of effort and of course the meal is a lot better.
Before i get off track
1. wrong to blame women for lack of sex
2. wrong to cheat on your partners irrespective of the reasons.you should work out ur problems.
3.If all else fail, go find a prostitute, its better n a lot less trouble than having an affair with another women, an affair is an even bigger can of worms.
4.legalise prostitution, so the gangster will not control this business. And we noe gangster is in cahoot with police. The govt can implement health screen on the sex worker. And the govt should also impose income tax on them, cos it is a legal profession alrady mahhhhh. Bcos with the current set up, da girls earn peanuts while the gangster(spas owner/pimps/human trafickers) and police take da whole cake without doing anything.
OK i thk this topic is totally irrelavant perhaps crankster wanna a new topic asking ppl for their opinion
PS:Once again i do not condone cheating, but if u insist on doing it, pay a prostitute, do not start an affair......
Hi Ms Cranky
Physical attraction between heterosexual males and heterosexual females, and the sex drive in Homo sapiens is universal and simply an evolutionary trick to get us to reproduce the species and ensure its survival. ;-)
However, actual physical expressions of sexuality are socially regulated and culturally conditioned. The anthropologists have given us interesting accounts of "comparative sexual behaviour" in various human societies and tribal groups.
Phua Kai Lit
I found this to be a funny report on an age-old issue.
Prostitution is one of the oldest occupations and in every era, there had always been plenty of excuses on why they exist and why men turn to them.
Evolutionarily speaking, the male had not been designed to be monogamous, and so perceives love and loyalty separate from sex. In a very blunt illustration, their lower 'portion' is disjointed from their brain. Females on the other hand, see the 3 as intertwined; they have been designed to first be nurturers to their off-springs and to have a nurturing environment, there needs to be love, loyalty and sex.
Of course, that's not to say men should go out romping and their (female) partners should accept it. I am in no way condoning to prostitution and infidelity. But understanding how we each have been 'made' and conditioned (by society, yes you've read that right!) makes it easier to tackle the issue.
The article spewed out statistics that a high number of prostitutes have been arrested - there seems to be no end to those arrests. And if you look at the numbers carefully, there seems to a yearly increase. Haven't the authorities learnt anything? Or do they have too much time on their hands?
Arresting the service providers is a waste of time. You send 1 load back in the morning, another load comes in the evening. When's it going to end? Where there's demand, there's supply.
Education is a better long-term investment; not so much the moral or religious mumbo-jumbo though. Sure, these latter can provide the foundation and safety net but it's really education about safer sex, better relationship and communication, responsibility to self, partner and family, and of course, the use of the brain to control those so-called urges that can ultimately foster attitude and behavioural change.
I found the report pretty funny in how it was implied men can't control their urges, hence, they seek out the service providers. What an insult to the male population!
I'm also utterly shocked and disappointed at the Women's Aid Organisation's Vice-President's response. What a load of crap and she supposedly stands for women?? God help the women in Malaysia!
Also, interesting comments to the article - noticed how most posters refer to women as sexual 'servants' e.g. "pleasing their husbands", "giving in" etc., as though somehow implying women are there to serve men sexually and that they themselves have no sexual desires. They have unwittingly revealed much about why and what prompted the article i.e. that women are to be blamed for their husbands straying 'member'. After all, the media reports on general attitudes. It is thus sad to read the general Malaysian still holds on to an out-dated attitude.
Without saying much, the article has said a lot about (wo)men in Malaysia.
pity i came here a bit late as this is MY favorite subject.
i don't understand why people are so stupid and want to lie to themselves and try to justify and put blames this way and that way.
it's all science. to understand why men behave so and why sex workers exist is really very simple. just look and observe monkeys.
to understand monkeys just watch david attenborough's programs on discovery.
InjusticeSystem, that's a whole new can of worms you've just presented and I like it. I'm quite torn on the topic of legalising prostitution because as long as there are men, women will always be in supply! The good part about legalising it is that the sex workers health and safety will be regulated. Bad news for the hooker is that she gets to pay tax like the rest of us.
Phua Kai Lit - I agree that physical expressions of sexuality are socially regulated and culturally conditioned, as you put it. So is there a solution, do you think, in getting men to remain faithful to their wives?
Tiffany - You bring up an interesting point about attitude and behavioural change. As for controlling urges, I think it could work for say, 2 weeks. Or maybe 2 years. But after that? Years and years of no sex, what should a man do?
Greenbottle - Primates eh? You think men haven't evolved all that much?
What Antares said.
Especially the last sentence - which many men are incapable of.
However, my question is that for men who are capable of this - what then is the women's answer? :)
Please, something other than this means he doesn't love her enough line. That's so laced with jealousy which attributes itself to the female form and does nothing to answer the question.
In fact, for the men who can do this, it actually shows a very interesting love that transcends the typical possessive love.
Or perhaps...men know...even if they offered women such freedom, she would still want him to only be loyal to her. Or am I wrong? :)
If I'm not, that raises a very human question, not gender at all.
Ball's in your court now ladies.
Talamh Raven, it is the husband's duty to ensure that his wife is sexually satisfied.
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